Discuss Rob Zombie
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"Creative exhaustion"?
posted by DRDMovieMusingsSTAFFMOD on July 28, 2022 at 1:56 PM
One of my favourite directors of all time is Billy Wilder. He dabbled across genres and made classics in several - whether a silly comedy (Some Like It Hot), a heartwarming rom-com (The Apartment), film noir (Double Indemnity, Sunset Boulevard), Wilder gave us timeless excellence that endures.
Not all directors have this degree of talent. Many focus on a particular genre. And that's fine. I really don't need a comedy from Wes Craven or a rom-com from John Carpenter.
But, looking at some numbers for seven of Rob Zombie's movies, the question of "creative exhaustion" raised by one reviewer has me scratching my head.
I've built up a movie ROI database with over 2500 titles from 1924 to present. Across almost a century of movie data, the average movie has paid back $3.72 in revenue for each production budget dollar in an industry that typically requires $2 to break-even (marketing spend is not linear in relation to budget spend, and hard to discover, so 2x budget is a rough approximation that applies broadly across any given movie).
Across the seven Rob Zombie movies I have in my database, they have paid an average of $3.26. Not great but, by no means, not bad. He makes some money.
However, it appears he made all his money on the four movies before 2010. The three movies released since 2010 have all lost money.
Many recognize that he has a particular style, and a loyal following. You pretty much know what you're getting into when sitting down to watch one of his movies. It seems his audience has tired of his shtick. Check this out...
- House of 1000 Corpses (2003) paid $2.56
- The Devil's Rejects (2005) paid $2.99
- Halloween (2007) paid $5.35
- Halloween II (2009) paid $2.63
- The Lords of Salem (2012) paid $0.78
- 31 (2016) paid $0.57
- 3 From Hell (2019) paid $0.77
From Ho1000C to Halloween, his stock rose, particularly with the anticipation of his interpretation of Halloween.
But notice, while Halloween paid well, his fans did not rush back to theatres to see his take on Halloween II. Or, the reviews - largely poor - discouraged his fans from bothering. It's this film that proved to be the turning point to his profitability.
Notice also, Ho1000C, TDR and 3FH are part of a trilogy. The first two made some money, but fans did not return to the final installment.
My concern with the notion of "creative exhaustion" is with interpretation. Whereas I at first thought it was referring to Zombie himself, I'm now thinking it's more about his audiences. Zombie does not venture far from his core style, I just don't see much creativity going on. It's not like he's trying his hand at a charming rom-com or a fun comedy, or even different kinds of horror movies. His style is essentially raunchy grind core. So, it's difficult for me to entertain that he's exhausted when he hasn't stretched much in the first place.
Or, maybe he tried to stretch with Halloween...and, that just didn't work out. So, he returned to what he knows and, while he's remained quite consistent in what he offers (supply), it seems its his fans (demand) that has changed. Yes, they know what they're going to get from him...and, they're increasingly less interested.
Disclaimer - I'm personally not a fan of the style, and haven't watched any of his movies, save the two Halloween movies. And, in saying that, I have no judgment of or against him, his work, or his fanbase. This is simply an objective review of some numbers and a dispassionate interpretation to add to the discourse.
PS If you bounced here from my comment on 31, this link will bounce you back https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/284564-31/discuss/62e1d747bbcae0005579e5ad
Reply by wonder2wonder
on July 28, 2022 at 6:03 PM
The audience don't seem to be too enthusiastic about his new movie "The Munsters (2022)".
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on July 28, 2022 at 6:43 PM
To be as fair to him as I can muster, it hasn't been released yet. But, let's keep our eyes on it and see - maybe the spirit of Halloween coupled with the post-shutdown return to theatres might buoy ticket sales...?
And, further to my take on his lack of creative range, The Munsters looks like he's (finally) going to try to stretch beyond his usual thing - I'm rooting for him and actually looking forward to it!
Reply by wonder2wonder
on July 28, 2022 at 6:53 PM
It will be streaming on Netflix, so no box office figures?
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on July 28, 2022 at 7:05 PM
Oh, crap! Good looking out.
Since I started working on my ROI database, I've been looking out for reports on how the movie industry would make the transition from theatrical release stats to whatever the hell they're going to do with streaming, in order to keep track of audience response (ticket sales revenue) and profitability, and it's hella murky - there is, as yet, no clearly defined way to capture profitability on a movie-by-movie basis in this new streaming paradigm.
In terms of audience response, we'll see what streaming stats the platform will share, as well as the ratings and reviews as they come in here on TMDb.
Reply by rooprect
on July 29, 2022 at 10:29 AM
Rob Zombie strikes me as sort of a Terry Gilliam filmmaker--meaning he began with a strong cult following, but as his name becomes more mainstream it waters down the audience. And, like Gilliam, maybe Zombie's popularity comes at the expense of his die hards who resent being part of the in-crowd. For example, your analysis indicates a sudden breaking point with Halloween which was his mainstream hit ('mainstream' financially, not necessarily artistically), and after that maybe his cult cooled off because he was suddenly a household name. This combined with the lack of mainstream hype for follow-ups was probably a double whammy that tanked his more recent films.
Do you happen to have a similar breakdown on Terry Gilliam? It would be interesting to see if a similar trend happened with him around "Brothers Grimm" which was his big mainstream effort.
One way or another I think you're right that the fault has a lot to do with the audience getting burned out. It takes a clever artist to produce quality material while evolving in a fresh way. David Bowie would be a great example of that. As for filmmakers, I think Wes Anderson hit the magic formula by staying true to his original quirky style while broadening it enough to pull in new fans. I don't think Wes Anderson's style has changed much over the years, but the production quality has gotten really fantastic and he pulls in big name stars to keep his films popular.
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on July 29, 2022 at 11:13 AM
Interesting, and quite possible. Metallica actually lost fans when they... cut their hair!
I'll check it out!
Indeed. Well said.
Interesting angle here. Big name stars can pull more ticket sales, but they also run up the budget. Low budget is one go-to strategy for profitability, so Zombie's low budget, indie-feel has advantage. I think you're on the money about one's "magic formula", whatever that is for each filmmaker. And, if they lose that edge, they've got to figure it out. Let's see if The Munsters works for him, of he wins a more broadened audience.
Reply by rooprect
on July 29, 2022 at 12:07 PM
The Munsters could definitely be a career maker/breaker for him! I have high hopes.
It'll be a tough tightrope though. It's such a beloved show I bet a lot of the audience might not even know who Rob Zombie is, they'll just be there to see something like the original was. But if Zombie stays too close to the original he'll disappoint his fans who are expecting something gritty.
Yikes it's almost like a "Brothers Grimm" moment is unfolding right before our eyes 😬
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on July 29, 2022 at 12:35 PM
We'd like to think he would know this, and I think his treatment of Halloween gives us hope he does!
Given how his fans have jumped off his wagon with his last three movies that delivered that grit, I hope he says "F'em" and stays focused on the true audience looking for that nostalgia energy that Tom Cruise sharply hit with Top Gun: Maverick. His marketing people better be worth their salt.
You've certainly piqued my curiosity here, and have assigned me some homework to do!
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on July 30, 2022 at 6:48 PM
Okay, so, I've got some Gilliam numbers, check'em out!)
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on September 30, 2022 at 1:16 PM
Back to Rob Zombie and The Munsters, and it's not looking good...
Rated 0 out of 5 according to The Munsters Review: Easily the Worst Movie Rob Zombie Has Ever Made.
Reply by rooprect
on September 30, 2022 at 4:57 PM
Yikes, not looking good for the Z-man! I see Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 4/10 and imdb gives it 4.5. Might be hard to nail down the ROI numbers since it’s a Netflix release but I don’t think it’s on course to be a big moneymaker or a career boost for anyone involved 😬
Reply by DRDMovieMusings
on September 30, 2022 at 6:10 PM
You just helped me further appreciate why streaming will be good for the movie industry. Bad movies can't hide behind big box office anymore! And great movies need not worry about being panned because of bad box office!
As for Rob Zombie, it seems he's run out of leeway with even his most ardent fans and isn't picking up any new fans with this latest effort.