@Thebridge said:

Just watched it. It was called Joan Crawford: Always the Star. Wow, what a career, the star system really was another animal from how it works today. She really did last as a huge star much longer than a lot of others. And I have my doubts too now about Christina and Christopher and their tales of her as a mom. Her twins loved her and appreciated her. That story about C & C resenting having to do the dishes when they knew there were servants for that was a real eye-opener.

I just watched the doco. I have a new respect for Joan Crawford. I didn't know anything about her private life other than from the book Mommy Dearest. I agree that it was made up fiction by a nasty jealous daughter.

@Kathy said:

Just watched it. It was called Joan Crawford: Always the Star.

I just watched and enjoyed it at Youtube. I had forgotten how beautiful she was in her younger years, just Like Bette Davis was.

"There's a lot of by tch in every woman...and a lot of by tch in every man too." -Joan Crawford

@ausfem said:

Just found it on Youtube

Thanks for that info.

@SkyPowers said:

For those blasting Sarandon's portrayal of Bette ... get a grip! (spoken as "What a dump!). When portraying well known characters, the objective of the actor is not to be an impersonator, not to mimic the exact voice of the one being portrayed, but to capture their essence. For example, Chris Pine does not impersonate William Shatner in the Star Trek reboot but captures his audacious cockiness. Same goes for Zachary Quinto as Spock. Sarandon's portrayal of Bette Davis is nothing less than extraordinary. In fact, Bette Davis herself wanted Sarandon to portray her when she was alive, a life story project where she needed an actress to play her when she was young. Critics are giving her universal rave reviews. Here is a link to an interview Davis gave in 1987 on the Phil Donahue show when she was promoting her autobiography and you will see the true Bette exposing who she really is. She discusses her relationship with Joan on Baby Jane at 16:10. She also discusses her estranged relationship with her daughter BB, her stroke and mastectomy, her love life or lack thereof (particularly re: Gary Merrill) and her opinion of modern day Hollywood. Absolutely fascinating. My father produced the poster you see for two seconds in the pilot when she co-stars with Gary Merrill in The World of Carl Sandburg. Dad knew Bette to be the ultimate professional who cared only about the work, giving 110 percent to assure the quality of the art was the best it could be. Which is why she fired her own husband. I myself was editorial manager at MGM from '87 to '90 and promoted all of their library, which included the Turner WB library at the time. Sadly I did not personally meet Davis but other co-workers did. They saw a fragile kind old withered woman. But when she stepped on stage, for example in this interview, a supernatural power possessed her and she became ... Bette Davis. Sarandon channels her essence to perfection, showing both her professional genius as well as her tragic vulnerability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dFFsbJWtU4

POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD IF YOU HAVE NOT FULLY WATCHED THE SERIES!

Thank you. I was starting to wonder if I was the only person here who just ADORES this show! I am RIVETED to the screen every episode, and I'm loving the behind the scenes information. It really helped me see the film differently when I watched the movie recently. In fact, sadly, I had to keep from laughing during the scene when Baby Jane drags Blanche's unconscious body from the bed. All I could think of was the weight belt Joan put on at one point during the filming.

And no, Jessica doesn't look much like Joan. But I'm overlooking that. I think Susan cast as Bette was spot on, though.

Seriously, I've been watching every second of this show and that's a rarity for me.

And judging from what I read in another thread, I think I'm the only person who saw the final look of Joan for the Oscar's night and thought, "My god, she looks gorgeous!" because yes, at first I thought, "OMG! NO!" when the makeup/hair person started dusting her beautiful black hair with that silver dust, but once I saw it completed, and her earrings, and makeup and dress, and nails... She took my breath away. The only thing I didn't like was the orange-red lipstick. But I've always hated that color of lipstick. I hated it on Bette, too.

@ausfem said:

@Thebridge said:

Just watched it. It was called Joan Crawford: Always the Star. Wow, what a career, the star system really was another animal from how it works today. She really did last as a huge star much longer than a lot of others. And I have my doubts too now about Christina and Christopher and their tales of her as a mom. Her twins loved her and appreciated her. That story about C & C resenting having to do the dishes when they knew there were servants for that was a real eye-opener.

I just watched the doco. I have a new respect for Joan Crawford. I didn't know anything about her private life other than from the book Mommy Dearest. I agree that it was made up fiction by a nasty jealous daughter.

Don't be so quick to judge. I love Joan Crawford, but I have no doubt she was a narcissist and narcissists can be VERY charming and can easily manipulate situations to make others look as though they the wrong ones, while garnering sympathy for themselves.

While not everything in Christina's book may have been true, I've watched Mommie dearest. I believe Christina. Why? My mother is a narcissist, and though she never hit me, she emotionally treated me as bad as Joan treated Christina. She always blamed me for things that were her own fault. She would never take responsibility for anything. It was easier to make me the scape goat. I finally was able to break away from her last year, but I have been severely emotionally scarred by what my mother did to me. I suspect that Joan did similar things to Christina. And she'd lie to people when it suited her so that I looked like a trouble-maker and the one with "problems," while diverting attention away from her so everyone would sympathize with her.

So, don't discount everything Christina said.

Sorry to say this, but your mom sounds like a world class bitch. I'm glad you managed to get away.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

@HoneyWest said:

Well, if she did there is a good chance they would never grow back, I think they could have done it with make up and they probably tried but maybe it looked too much like a caricature? I feel like they decided to let them interrupt these women as they saw them and let the acting carry the roles rather than trying to do an imitation...

Joans eyebrows looked like a caricature on Joan. Whether with shaving or makeup, they could have done something better with Jessica's brows.

Izzybee3, made the initial "shave her eyebrows"statement and said she was " just a little disappointed in their depictions."

And I know you meant interpret .

Did anyone notice that Joan's eyebrows have become a lot fuller on Jessica? I guess they introduced them slowly. They should have there own spot in the credits.

@Milo_Jeeder said:

Sorry to say this, but your mom sounds like a world class bitch. I'm glad you managed to get away.

She is, and thank you. I've got a lot of anger, bitterness, and resentment to work through, and it's probably going to take a very long time, and it's very difficult to deal with, and it's especially difficult when people tell me, "Geeze, just let it go. It's over, be happy," because it's not so easy to let go. I'm happier, yes, but I have a long way to go and a lot of things to work through. I do want to eventually be able to let it go. I don't want to have my anger and bitterness turn me into a victim. But then, that's what long-term therapy is for, lol.

Anyway, my point remains that people shouldn't discount what someone says about something like this because it may in fact be true, even though you may not want to believe it.

Few know the psychological mental condition of narcissism. It's an actual affliction. Most refer to the colloquial definition of someone who is simply conceited. Narcissism is an awful malady. They rely on manipulation. They come off as wonderful at first until they're found out and then it can turn very very ugly fast. My sympathies.

@SkyPowers said:

Few know the psychological mental condition of narcissism. It's an actual affliction. Most refer to the colloquial definition of someone who is simply conceited. Narcissism is an awful malady. They rely on manipulation. They come off as wonderful at first until they're found out and then it can turn very very ugly fast. My sympathies.

Yes, and because of my experiences with a real live narcissist, I was able to recognize it in Joan which is why I've said what I did about what Christina has written/said about Joan. If you're only someone who's experienced the charming side of a narcissist, you're going to think the complaining person who has seen ALL SIDES of said narcissist is lying and ungrateful, etc. I've had to deal with that too. It's very frustrating and when you get someone telling you just how wonderful they think your mother is because she's so generous and CHARMING, all you can do is smile and nod and say, "Thank you," while all you really want to do is scream at the person to open their eyes and see your mother for who she REALLY is.

And yes, I know it's a psychological, mental condition. The problem is, the narcissist doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. Hence why they ALWAYS blame someone else for their own problems. They refuse to take responsibility for their own actions because they think they're perfect. So if something goes wrong, they blame whomever is closest to them in their life because no way could it POSSIBLY have been something THEY themselves did to cause fault. And you can't tell them that they're a narcissist and need help and should see a therapist because they'll just scoff at you and think you're the crazy one for thinking that there's something wrong with them because they just know better.

https://twitter.com/GerardKennelly/status/751927835183484928