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When submitting a direct translation into English (one which is not used as an official title anywhere) of the original title of a movie as an alternative name, should "Country" be set to the country of origin (the country whose title has been translated into English) or should it be set to United States (the country whose main language the title has been translated into)?

Regardless of the Country, it will be clear that the title is a translation into English if the "Type" field has something like "informal literal English title" in it (to co-opt an IMDb attribute), so I've never been sure what I'm supposed to do for the Country in these cases.

I've also seen no rules on how a direct translation which is not an official title should be capitalised. Should it be in title caps, like an official title in the language it has been translated into, or should it be in normal sentence case (as it is not itself a title that the work has been released with)?

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@NotSafeforFun said:
Country and capitalisation for literal translations of titles?
When submitting a direct translation into English (one which is not used as an official title anywhere) of the original title of a movie as an alternative name, should "Country" be set to the country of origin (the country whose title has been translated into English) or should it be set to United States (the country whose main language the title has been translated into)?

Regardless of the Country, it will be clear that the title is a translation into English if the "Type" field has something like "informal literal English title" in it (to co-opt an IMDb attribute), so I've never been sure what I'm supposed to do for the Country in these cases.

I've also seen no rules on how a direct translation which is not an official title should be capitalised. Should it be in title caps, like an official title in the language it has been translated into, or should it be in normal sentence case (as it is not itself a title that the work has been released with)?

No Official Release
The translated title field should be left blank there is no official translation. Please do not add unofficial translations.
Exception: a romanized title can be used as a temporary translated En-US title for entries with a non-Roman original title (e.g. a Japanese, Malayalam or Ukranian movie).

See here https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/movie#59f3b1749251414f2000000d
This page may also be useful for you https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/movie/59f3b16d9251414f20000002

I was not referring to the "Translated Title" field on the "Primary Facts" page for each movie. I know that unofficial translations should never be entered in there.

I'm referring to adding titles to the "Alternative Titles" page.

I don't know of a rule preventing adding alternative direct translations of the original title to this page for each movie, and it's particularly useful to add them when they're popularly used to refer to a movie in books and on the Internet but are not an official title in order to aid people in finding such movies on the database.

For a simple example, a book on French animation I have refers to a film as Kirikou and the Witch. If one searched for that title on TMDb and TMDb only contained official translations they might not find anything, because the only English title it has been released under is Kirikou and the Sorceress.

@NotSafeforFun said:
I was not referring to the "Translated Title" field on the "Primary Facts" page for each movie. I know that unofficial translations should never be entered in there.
I'm referring to adding titles to the "Alternative Titles" page.

Got it. So it refers to the second link that I indicated.

@NotSafeforFun said:
Country and capitalisation for literal translations of titles?
When submitting a direct translation into English (one which is not used as an official title anywhere) of the original title of a movie as an alternative name,
1 - should "Country" be set to the country of origin (the country whose title has been translated into English),
2 - should it be set to United States (the country whose main language the title has been translated into)?

I believe that your option 1 is the most correct. Here's the rule:
Country
1 Romanized original titles should be added with the country of origin (e.g. Japan) as the country.
2 English titles found on the non-English posters of a non-English movie (e.g. a Japanese or a Malayalam movie) should be added with the country of origin as a country.
3 If you know of an alternative title (most often in English) but don't know the country, we usually enter it with USA as the country.

Regardless of the Country, it will be clear that the title is a translation into English if the "Type" field has something like "informal literal English title" in it (to co-opt an IMDb attribute),
so I've never been sure what I'm supposed to do for the Country in these cases.

The alternative title must fit into one of the 3 rules I mentioned above.
I don't think an "informal literal English title" fits the rule.
Where, in what media, was this title used?

I've also seen no rules on how a direct translation which is not an official title should be capitalised.

I don't think you saw why this type of title, "informal literal English title", is outside the rules.

Should it be in title caps, like an official title in the language it has been translated into,

title caps? In this case, what is the language and country?

or should it be in normal sentence case (as it is not itself a title that the work has been released with)?

Titles must follow the capitalization rules of the language in which it is written.
If it is written in English it follows USA rules.
If it is written in French it follows French rules, which are different from the USA rules.
In the case of the Romanized I believe that they must follow the USA rules.

Everything would be easier if you had a specific case.
Which movie? What Title? For which language-country?

Let's go to these comments added.

@NotSafeforFun said:
I don't know of a rule preventing adding alternative direct translations of the original title to this page for each movie,

The rules that exist are in this link that I already posted:
https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/movie/59f3b16d9251414f20000002

and it's particularly useful to add them when they're popularly used to refer to a movie in books and on the Internet
but are not an official title in order to aid people in finding such movies on the database.

I agree.
The rule does not specifically address these cases, but it should be allowed in those cases.

For a simple example, a book on French animation I have refers to a film as Kirikou and the Witch.

The translation of your text into my language (pt-BR) tells me that you are the author of the book.
That's right?

If one searched for that title on TMDb and TMDb only contained official translations they might not find anything,
because the only English title it has been released under is Kirikou and the Sorceress.

Yes, I believe that this title can be added.
Two issues.
1 Country: I believe it must be France. This is where this variation of the title is used.
2 Capitalization: In the same way it is spelled in French books and on the French internet.

We typically want a title to be in use for it to be added as an alternative title. So any home-cooked titles should be avoided. But a title used in a book, in an news article or on a website (to use three common examples) should be fine to add as an alternative title.

@ticao2 said:

@NotSafeforFun said:
I don't know of a rule preventing adding alternative direct translations of the original title to this page for each movie, The rules that exist are in this link that I already posted:
https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/movie/59f3b16d9251414f20000002

I’ve read that page closely several times, and it makes no mention at all of unofficial translated titles, whether “home-baked” ones or ones used by someone else in a book, news article, website, etc. It does not state that either can be included, but neither does it state that either should not.

It would be useful, therefore, for that page to include some guidance about whether either kind of direct translation can be added.

@ticao2 said: The translation of your text into my language (pt-BR) tells me that you are the author of the book.
That's right?

The book I was thinking of (which is actually one on silhouette animation, not French animation) is The Silhouette Film by Pierre Jouvanceau, as translated into English by Clare Kitson. Neither of those people are me. (Richard Neupert’s French Animation History uses the official English title, with Sorceress rather than Witch. I’m not him, either.)

@ticao2 said: 1 Country: I believe it must be France. This is where this variation of the title is used.
2 Capitalization: In the same way it is spelled in French books and on the French internet.

I’m referring to a translation into English, so I don’t understand why it would make any sense to apply French capitalisation rules to English?

I used the Witch/Sorceress translation difference when translating French into English in this title as an example. But I am trying to ascertain what the rules are for translations from and into any two languages. The question is whether the Country should indicate the language being translated into or the language it is being translated from (with the language it is being translated into specified in the Type field instead).

From linker’s reply, however, I’m beginning to think that, if only pre-existing translations used in print or on other websites are allowed, the Country should be that where the publisher of the book is based or the website is run out of?

And that it should use the title capitalisation rules of the language it has been translated into, as such titles are most often used in these media as a stand-in when the writer or translator of the text is not aware of the official title in the language they’re writing in (either because the official one hadn’t been announced yet or, more often, the writer/translator hasn’t bothered to do some quite rudimentary research, or has got confused by the predominance of an unofficial title over the official one).

@NotSafeforFun said:

I’m referring to a translation into English, so I don’t understand why it would make any sense to apply French capitalisation rules to English?

I used the Witch/Sorceress translation difference when translating French into English in this title as an example.
But I am trying to ascertain what the rules are for translations from and into any two languages. The question is whether the Country should indicate the language being translated into or the language it is being translated from (with the language it is being translated into specified in the Type field instead).

From linker’s reply, however, I’m beginning to think that, if only pre-existing translations used in print or on other websites are allowed, the Country should be that where the publisher of the book is based or the website is run out of?

And that it should use the title capitalisation rules of the language it has been translated into, as such titles are most often used in these media as a stand-in when the writer or translator of the text is not aware of the official title in the language they’re writing in (either because the official one hadn’t been announced yet or, more often, the writer/translator hasn’t bothered to do some quite rudimentary research, or has got confused by the predominance of an unofficial title over the official one).

I understood that it was a concrete case, true. It is not.
It is a hypothetical case, an example created by you. It is not a concrete fact.
Well, that's what we have, so let's use your example.

A film of French origin, produced in France,
https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/21348-kirikou-et-la-sorci-re
and that has the following characteristics:
Original Title (French): Kirikou et la sorcière
Official Title (English): Kirikou and the Sorceress
Unofficial Title: Kirikou and the Witch
The Unofficial Title was created and is used in France, it is in English, it is used in French books and on French websites.

My hypothetical questions and answers:
Question 1: Can the Unofficial Title be added to Alternative Titles?
Answer 1: Yes, it can. Despite not being spelled out in the rules, it is tolerated by TMDb because it is a title in common use in French books and on French websites.
The French population normally uses this unofficial title in internet searches, in conversations with friends, to refer to it in texts on Whatsapp, in memos, etc ...
A large part of the population that knows this film, knows with this title.
This title is not only used by an enthusiastic teenager, or just by a weird collector, or just by some old man full of quirks. No, that is not the case.
So yes, it can be added in Alternative Titles.

Question 2: But then what country should we use in the Country field?
Answer2: We must use the country responsible for creating and using this unofficial title, and in our hypothetical example, France.

Question 3: And which capitalization rule should we use for this unofficial title?
The rule of the English language which is the language used to write this unofficial title?
Or the French language rule that is the country of origin of this unofficial title?
Answer 3: The capitalization rule that was most used in France by all the media must be adopted: Books, countless internet pages, signs with the title on TV channels, newspapers and magazines etc ...
That is, the way the Title is known to French citizens.

Translated by Google - from Brazilian Portuguese to English
So, watch out! There must be errors.


EDIT
In time, this is just my opinion.
Other moderators may have a different opinion.
Moderators who have French as their native language can add an important opinion on this issue.

The example I gave is a real one. The film is referred to by the official Witch translation in the book I gave the title, author and translator of earlier. But I am using this as one example in order to know what to do in all similar cases.

The film isn’t very widely called by this unofficial title by French speakers in France to each other. They use the original, French title. But “witch” is an at least equally common way of translating sorcière into English as “sorceress”, so if they don’t know the official English title they may translate it as “Kirikou and the Witch” for English speakers and readers.

Giving a country of origin to this unofficial translation is difficult, though. I know that it is used in a book written by a French person, translated I think by a British person, edited by an Italian person and published in Italy. And I don’t know how many other texts originating in other countries might have also used this other translation (probably quite a lot, as “witch” is normally the more common way of translating the word). It would be very helpful to be able to default in a complex case like this to either the country the title being translated is from or the default country for the language it has been translated into.

I never asked whether translations of titles not used as official titles should be capitalised according to English title caps or the title caps rules of the original language. The latter would make zero sense to me, because the title isn’t in that language any more.

I asked whether they should follow English title caps rules or normal English sentence rules.

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