@NeuroDawg said:

1. Can these be merged? If not, should 131428 be deleted and re-created in the correct place? Rather than update 131428, I am leaving it and will be updated the DVD order for 1025, since this seems more correct to me.

The 131428 show will have to be deleted.

I can eventually keep it online some times if you think that you need to copy and paste some data from it to update the other.

1. 'The Bullwinkle Show' is really not the correct name for 1025. The original series name was 'Rocky & His Friends' and aired on ABC 1959-1960. It only became known as 'The Bullwinkle Show' when it moved to NBC in 1961. Since the title is locked, how does that get corrected?

As per our rules, the listed title should be the last title used during the original run of the series. So, the correct title is "The Bullwinkle Show". The previous titles should be listed as alternative titles.

1. Are there guidelines here (like at TVDB) with regards to rules and style for naming seasons and episodes?

All our TV guidelines are available here.

@superboy97 said:

The 131428 show will have to be deleted.

I can eventually keep it online some times if you think that you need to copy and paste some data from it to update the other.

Ok. Let's keep it for now and I'll let you know when I've copied what I needed. It shouldn't be more than a day or three.

As per our rules, the listed title should be the last title used during the original run of the series. So, the correct title is "The Bullwinkle Show". The previous titles should be listed as alternative titles.

All right then. I think that's a silly rule, but I can live with it.

All our TV guidelines are available here.

Thank you.

The TV Bible says that overviews should not be wiki overviews, but plot overviews. Given that this is an animated variety shows, with multiple multi-segment stories, wouldn't it be more appropriate for a wiki-style overview of the show, with plots in the seasons/episodes?

Lastly, on the edit pages, the text boxes don't give the character limits. Are those listed anywhere? What's the maximum character count for Show overview? I've learned from experience that it's 1000 characters for episodes.

Thanks again. Like I said, I look forward to getting this information added correctly for The Bullwinkle Show. And I'm going to keep my responses going on this thread. You can lock the other one.

The TV Bible says that overviews should not be wiki overviews, but plot overviews. Given that this is an animated variety shows, with multiple multi-segment stories, wouldn't it be more appropriate for a wiki-style overview of the show, with plots in the seasons/episodes?

A general plot should be used at series level, like the current one, for example.

Lastly, on the edit pages, the text boxes don't give the character limits. Are those listed anywhere? What's the maximum character count for Show overview? I've learned from experience that it's 1000 characters for episodes.

The limit is 1000 characters for all overview field.

Okay, so what can be done about this? I created the "Rocky & Bullwinkle & Friends" entry (id 131428? I don't know, it's been deleted) because the DVD metadata would not appear correctly in Infuse or DS Video (or was completely absent). Now the work I did is deleted, and I can't even cut and paste it for a fix. Plus the episodes in the current entry do not reflect the DVDs; the ID 1025 episodes are in any case inaccurate, as I am pretty sure they were never broadcast in 4-5 minute chunks; it was always a half-hour show.

How about this for a solution: restore "Rocky & Bullwinkle & Friends," rename it to the correct title according to your rules, copy whatever useful information is in ID 1025, and then delete ID 1025.

All our series are listed based on the original TV broadcast. If a DVD order can't be managed by an episode group, it can't be listed here.

Why can't you use an episode group ?

@superboy97 said:

All our series are listed based on the original TV broadcast. If a DVD order can't be managed by an episode group, it can't be listed here.

Well, that's not true of Season 2 of 'The Bullwinkle Show' as this season clearly lists animated segments in the DVD order and not the original TV Broadcast dates.

Why can't you use an episode group ?

DVD groups here at TMDB only allow us to reorder the segments, into a different order. Unlike TVDB, this site does not allow separate episodes (with all the animated segments combined into the DVD episode). So we're left with nothing but reordered segments, not actual episodes that consist of multiple segments.

I know that you've recommended elsewhere just naming our files in a manner to combine the episodes listed here (ie. S02E01-05). Unfortunately, this does not combine all the information from segments 1-5 in Jellyfin or Plex (the two media servers I've used), they give the information for episode (segment) 1, and then the next episode (S02E06-10) simply displays the information from episode (segment) 6. What we'd like is to simply recreate and list the episodes as they appear on DVDs, with the appropriate segments included in the descriptions. I've submitted a feature request for this; I hop that Travis Bell will consider this feature change.

@NeuroDawg said:

Well, that's not true of Season 2 of 'The Bullwinkle Show' as this season clearly lists animated segments in the DVD order and not the original TV Broadcast dates.

Do you have an official proof that this season is not listed in the broadcast order ? If the answer is yes, feel free to create a content report on the corresponding show with the proof.

What would constitute “official proof”? How about common sense?

As I pointed out above, this listing as it stands is nonsense, unless you believe that the show was really broadcast as 4-5 minute episodes.

whshep, TMDB has an insane policy, just like TVDB, in which animated series (anime and cartoons) that consist of two or more distinct segments be split into the component segments and each segment be listed as an individual "episode" (see https://www.themoviedb.org/bible/tv/59f743289251416e71000037). They claim it's because often those segments are repackaged in different orders and episodes when re-broadcast in syndication, re-runs, and DVDs. Unlike TheTVDB however, TMDB offers no way to create listings that correspond to DVD episodes (packaging the segments into actual episodes). Their answer is to simply list the segments in the order they appear on DVD, and name your video files stupidly (S02E01-05). This, unfortunately, means that anyone who has copied those DVDs to their media servers have no way to automatically use DVD series unless their server uses a metadata server that uses data from TheTVDB. If you use Plex, they use TheTVDB metadata and can access that DVD order. However, if you use Jellyfin, as I do, you can't access TheTVDB metadata unless you pay for access ($12/yr). I'm simply creating the metadata manually on my Jellyfin server; I wish I had a way to share it, but I won't edit TheTVDB data and let them make money off me, and I can't create the data here.

@superboy97 said:

Do you have an official proof that this season is not listed in the broadcast order ? If the answer is yes, feel free to create a content report on the corresponding show with the proof.

Do you mean other than the broadcast dates that are listed on the episodes here at TMDB? The episodes listed for season 2 and season 3 of this series have broadcast dates that are correct, but the episodes are not listed in chronological (ie. broadcast) order.

@NeuroDawg said:

Do you mean other than the broadcast dates that are listed on the episodes here at TMDB?

Yes, to be able to check the segments ordering while reordering the different dates.

@superboy97 said:

Yes, to be able to check the segments ordering while reordering the different dates.

The broadcast dates here at TMDB are correct. But seasons 2 and 3 are not ordered by original broadcast dates. They are in the order they appear on the DVDs. Additionally, season 5 has a bunch of shorts (Dudley Do-Right, Peabody's Improbable History, etc.) that were broadcast in earlier seasons, but not season 5 (I think, I'm still looking to confirm that). Are you saying I need additional information/proof that the ordering is wrong, before the order would be changed to follow the broadcast dates? That seems to contradict what you said above - "All our series are listed based on the original TV broadcast."

In short, this series is completely hosed up. I'd fix it, but I'm not going to spend my time fixing all those segments if I can't also created a DVD order that contains the actual episodes (combined segments) the way they appear on the DVDs.

@NeuroDawg said:

Are you saying I need additional information/proof that the ordering is wrong, before the order would be changed to follow the broadcast dates?

No, I don't say that. I say that I need a proof of the order of the segments on each day to verify this part of the order. Reordering based on the currently listed dates is easy. But it's of no use if the segments are not in the correct order.

I recently picked up the complete DVD set and am seeing the difficulty of the data here when loading this onto my KODI instance. The data here looks accurate and in DVD order, it's just fractured into segments. IMDB has the episodes combined as they were aired and packaged on the DVDs, but they appear to be sorted by air-date and not DVD order.

I believe it would be ideal to have these segments combined and the episodes presented in DVD order, but this is just my opinion as someone who wants the DVDs I ripped to show up correctly in KODI.

Is there anything I could provide that might help? I have the listing of each segment in correct order for each episode (including segments like Peabody's Issac Newton from S03E24 that was re-run in S05E32) and would be happy to document this all, or edit the episodes here to get them correct.

For example Season 1 Episode 1 should have a description of: "Rocky & Bullwinkle: Jet Fuel Formula (1) Fractured Fairy Tales: Rapunzel Bullwinkle's Corner: The Swing Peabody: Show Opening Rocky & Bullwinkle: Jet Fuel Formula (2)"

And replace what is currently S01E01-05

Would this help?

As per our rules, the segments should be listed split. I quote the rules : "For kids cartoon with two or three distinct stories (segments) per half-hour, each episode should be split so that each segment is an episode. For example, "Going the Extra Milo / Sunny Side Up" should be two episodes. The main reason for splitting the segments is that segments are often released individually and/or paired with a different segment in subsequent releases."

For your sample episode to correctly appear in Kodi, you just have to name your file S01E01E02E03E04E05.mkv (or whatever extension you have used for your file).

The thing we need befoe reordering them in the correct original broadcast order (seasons 2 or 3) is an official proof of this original order as we don't want to move the episodes multiple times. The order on your DVD is a hint but not a proof. DVD doesn't always include the episodes in the same order as the original broadcast.

This makes sense to me, and is a very reasonable standard to keep despite this show not fitting the formula very well.

I don't suppose this show has a loophole to the rule as the segments are so very short resulting in episodes having 5 or more segments, and not two or three as the rule suggests?
That's mostly a joke. :)

I'll rename my episodes so I can get things working for my sever. Thanks for the speedy reply.