@ScorpionQ2 said:

@MrCharmingMan said:

I haven't seen Twin peaks, West World or Fargo so I skipped to the end of this to reply.

I promise I did not spoil anything

Did you enjoy the finale? I did not. i was actually rather pissed at how they basically left us extremely unsatisfied.

Not really, although I am glad Kevin was alive and finally happy.I was expecting ALL questions (if any ) NOT to be answered, so I certainly was not let down at all.

Lost (and True Blood ) has taught me not to have great expectations from a TV series- just to enjoy it and once it's over erase it from my memory.

and just like LOST, THE LEFTOVERS took us down MANY TOTALLY UNNECESSARY long winding roads veered left all of a sudden, hit the breaks and dumped us on the side of the curb-honked and sped off into the sunset.

What was the point of all that Book of Kevin/Kevin being the new Jesus/not being able to die- (and all the other things too numerous to list) just to eventually have a heart attack and wind up with Nora?

Yes exactly! I mean as bad as LOST was at least they pretty much explained all the weird crap and why it was happening because they are all DEAD and are waiting to see if they get to go to heaven or hell. LOST went into too many unnecessary flash forwards ands flash sideways that never actually happened within the actual lineal timeline of LOST, but you can at least understand that the network wanted the writers to write a bunch of filler episodes to sell more add time to, but HBO has no reason to do that since they don't rely on ads like networks do.

Yeah Id actually rather have Kevin turn out to be Jesus or some kind of God or savior instead of just looking for an old ass Nora with bad hair and wrinkled face to talk for the last 30minutes of the episode. Seeing how HBO ended Sopranos shoot the whole final seasons of Sopranos was awful and the ending was one of the biggest WTF of all television history we should of known better than to think they would have ended Leftovers in any decent way as well.

@MrCharmingMan said:

With all that money that they put into the other episodes you would think they only had like $50 bucks to finish the finale with seeing that it was just them talking and telling each other campfire stories.

DEAD @ $50

Like when she said she took a boat from Australia to New York and it took a very long time LOL. They couldn't even cut to a shot of her on a boat crossing the oceans? LOL WTF was the point of Nora catching the nun having sex with that man sneaking out?

EXACTLY! But what was the point of ALL the points they depicted/brought up throughout the whole series?

I didn't really have to see that boring ass wedding either or the goat with the new orleans show me your breasts beads. I thought it actually started off really good and it just went down hill and got worse and worse I kept looking at the clock thinking it something huge going to happen in the final 2 minute? Final 1 minute? Final 30 seconds? Final 10 seconds? Final 5 seconds? WTF????????? REALLY?????? YOU GONNA END THIS LIKE THAT? !!!!

For closure so I can move on to the next mind phuck, here is what I made of the series finale:

I think Nora had learned to accept her sins (constantly screwing over Kevin and thinking her loss was always greater than those of others) of the past ("sins of people's past"-what the beads the goat was wearing represented and she put them on thus "owning her sins") I'm just glad it ended with Kevin alive...and happy.

The birds returning- her knowing peace from the acceptance of her sins. Whoopee. It was always all about Nora- just like she had always acted like it was.

: yawn: No big reveal/questions answered/firework ending. Just ...The End...and then... one last was flipped.

@MrCharmingMansaid:

...we should of known better than to think they would have ended Leftovers in any decent way as well.

From past experiences, I predicted they wouldn't answer half of the questions brought up and end with even more unanswered new ones. That theme song Let The Mystery Be actually told us up front what the deal was .

@Invidia said:

The 2 guys who reviewed the show ...

(one of them also said he thinks NORA LIED to KEVIN about what happened to her) ...

After that ending, the whole series was a lie.

also suggested the reason for this ending might be because they're planning a SPIN OFF SHOW called: THE DEPARTED

I will not watch <--- and why does the angry emoji look Asian?

where they'd tell us the story about what life was like for the others in the place where NORA supposedly went to.

I wanted to know what happened in the place where they all stayed.

And why was Nora soo much-wayy much more older looking than Kevin? Did the machine age her? Was the boat ride years long? How many years had actually passed when Kevin finally found her? Why did old Laurie have a young baby that looked nothing like John?

Kevin can't die but yet has a heart attack? Just who/what was Kevin?

IF she did go there, my bet is those 2 BRATS of hers were probably also even WORSE BRATS 7 years later, and that's why she decided to come back again.

Because we also hear how horrible they were behaving right before she gets into the POD thing that fills up with the LIQUID substance.

And they were acting horribly/getting on her nerves when they were shown at the (breakfast?) table.

Even IF we suspend our disbelief that the MACHINE really worked, it still also MAKES NO SENSE that she'd just WALK AWAY and never say anything at all to her kids once she went to all of that trouble and effort.

And how come we never hear of anyone else ever RETURNING ? Did not someone say-" You can't come back." ?

So I've also still not seen the scene where the NUN had sex yet.

It wasn't actually shown- Nora caught the guy sneaking out and questions the nun about it- like it's even her business.

She also looks like she's wearing a BLACK PILLOWCASE on top of her head.

oh well, just another show I am sure I will never re watch.

@Invidia said:

Why did old Laurie have a young baby that looked nothing like John? The baby in her lap was her GRANDCHILD. Jill's had a baby (not LAURIE).

Well, that explains that.

And how come we never hear of anyone else ever RETURNING ? Did not someone say-" You can't come back." ?

I already asked the same question.

Well, it is a very good one.

With over 100 people using the MACHINE surely there'd be at least ONE other person besides NORA who felt they'd made a mistake and wanted to come back again because whoever they wanted to be with had already MOVED ON and formed another new family?

And there's also still the other problem of NOT having a BODY to return to again with their previous body also LOCKED UP and ENCASED inside of that FLUID they sat down in to be TRANSPORTED.

Exactly this (and a lot more I won't dwell on anymore) why that ending was just SO phucked up.

@Invidia said:

Why did old Laurie have a young baby that looked nothing like John?

The baby in her lap was her GRANDCHILD.

Jill's had a baby (not LAURIE).

And they were acting horribly/getting on her nerves when they were shown at the (breakfast?) table.

Yes. That's the scene we hear playing again inside of NORA'S MIND right before she gets into the MACHINE.

And that was also WEIRD that she'd remember that scene instead of the other one we saw where her kids wake her up on Christmas or something?

Why recall how horrible they were behaving that day instead of recalling another scene with them that would have been a better memory?

Because she’s not remembering how horrible they were behaving. She’s remembering how horrible SHE was behaving, by being annoyed at them and caring more about her potential job than about them.

Of course her being annoyed was really nothing out of the ordinary and completely irrelevant, IF they hadn’t suddenly disappeared forever right after. My point being, she fells GUILTY. That is her main emotion about it all, and why she’s so f*cked up. She doesn’t feel sorry for herself anywhere near as much as she feels guilty.

@Invidia said:

Because she’s not remembering how horrible they were behaving. She’s remembering how horrible SHE was behaving, by being annoyed at them and caring more about her potential job than about them.

---

She had every right to be ANNOYED with them.

Did you hear them saying and DEMANDING over and over again that THEY WANTED FOOD?

And her husband also just sits there and does NOTHING whatsoever to DISCIPLINE them?

If we judge them by that scene, one could also assume Life with them must have been HORRIBLE.

And yes she also wanted the JOB, but when her DAUGHTER spills the ORANGE JUICE onto the PHONE and ruined it down the drain went her chance of getting it.

And we also don't know if that was an accident or not, or if maybe the husband may also have done something to encourage that to happen (maybe because he was also jealous that she'd be working for the MAYOR and thought that would also result in his having to spend more time taking care of the 2 unbearable BRATS)???.

There is literally nothing to indicate that her husband would somehow done something to encourage that. At all.

The children were demanding food, but in a playful way. They were just being children. And children can be annoying sometimes. There was nothing out of the ordinary there.

And this really is not different from any situation where a loved one suddenly does. It leaves everything unresolved. It makes every little time where you were not loving enough seem like a huge sin that you can’t stop thinking about. She can’t forget that the last time she saw them, talked to them, interacted with them, was to scream at them. It doesn’t matter if it was justified or not. Ultimately her potential job and her cell phone didn’t matter compared to how her children mattered.

Of course her being annoyed was really nothing out of the ordinary and completely irrelevant, IF they hadn’t suddenly disappeared forever right after. My point being, she fells GUILTY. That is her main emotion about it all, and why she’s so f*cked up. She doesn’t feel sorry for herself anywhere near as much as she feels guilty.

Yes that makes sense, except for the way she SHOVES the COFFEE CUP off the table as a way to GET ATTENTION.

And then she has the HUGE HISSY FIT at the convention because someone else stole her ID BADGE (which also gave her an EXAULTED STATUS when she wore it for her having 3 family members who went missing).

She has a “hissy fit”? she’s understandably upset that her identity is being stolen.

And then she also had the FIGHT with the other guy in the BAR who wrote the WHAT'S NEXT BOOK, telling him the deaths of his parents didn't count because they were in their 70's and almost dead anyhow.

And then we also saw her take LAURIE'S LIGHTER away from her and refuse to give it back again which leads to Laurie's BLACK EYE.

And she also stole the QUESTIONS from the other guy's brief case ... while KEVIN looks down in horror at what he sees her doing ... before she takes them to ERIKA ... and then proceeds to PESTER her by asking her the QUESTIONS that she shouldn't have had in the first place.

And that also leads to ERIKA getting pissed off and throwing the ROCK through her window (because she also realized at that point how Nora was the one who first threw the ROCK through her window).

So, imo, NORA's also always behaved like a SPOILED BRAT herself (and that might also be where her daughter learned to behave in the same way).

So… you’re just listing all the reasons why you don’t like Nora.

She had her whole family disappear from one moment to the next. She’ is NOT mentally ok, no one would be. I’d say she acts pretty well all considered.

And isn't that also the reason why MATT got so JEALOUS of her back when they were still kids? Because of the way his parents constantly use to DOTE on her to the EXCLUSION of him and his needs?

Anyhow, did anyone else also detect a NOTE of SARCASM in her voice as she asked KEVIN if he believed her?

As if maybe she also presents him with a CHALLENGE that he's required to believe her STORY if he also wanted her to believe in his STORY about going to HOTEL LAND and coming back again?

Like perhaps the indication is IF he doesn't BELIEVE the BS that she's feeding to him, then she's also NOT going to BELIEVE in his BS either?

Maybe. Though I didn’t detect any sarcasm.

Man, you don't know much about kids if you think they were so horrible children for screaming they wanted breakfast. And yes, they were being playful, but didn't notice her mom wasn't in the mood for it... because they were kids.

BTW, the more I think about it the more I'm sure the story Nora told Kevin was in no way true.

NORA'S BOOK would SURELY have sold many more copies than KEVIN'S would have.

WOW I almost forgot how crappy this ending was and almost forgot I put so much trust and hope into this show and finale until I checked my email and got an alert and brought me back here LOL.

The ending was really pretty strange, as was the whole season imo. The whole theme was changed and I'm not sure why. nevertheless, I still think it was good, and I definitely think she was lying at the end, and that that's what we were supossed to get from that.

Sure, she was a "no bs" woman - as shown by her hunging the picture of the dead tower guy for everyone to see and take them thus out of their fantasy - but she actually struggled between that and the hope she WANTED to have. She wanted to believe things were better than they seemed, she wanted to believe in the "better story", we can even take this as her wanting to have faith, in a religious sense. We can see this, for example, in her going to the magic hugging guy (forgot his name) in season one (and she actually WAS better after that, even if only for the power of self suggestion). We can also see it in her wanting then to go into the machine in season three. This despite every logical part of her being telling her that it was fake, a sham.

It is the way this season makes sense, and it's actually an extremely interesting idea and theme. It was just a bit strangely developed, especially since it changed so much from the previous seasons.

@Invidia said:

If Nora did LIE to KEVIN about what happened, then what really did happen?

Did she really wake up naked and alone like she said ... because the IV in her arm put her to sleep ... which gave the rest of them time to dump her body there and get away?

Probably. But the important thing is, it was a scam.

But what about MATT? Did he also leave because they removed her body from the POD and he believed she was gone?

Possibly. Or any similar scenario.

And WHY would he believe in this SCAM when he also just got through seeing why his own BOOK of KEVIN was also a SCAM (which the LION issue and his experience on the boat also seems to have been the inspiration for)???

Guess that because he wanted to believe. Or he didn’t want to destroy HER faith at least.

And what were KEVIN'S TRIPS to HOTEL land all about?

Did they really happen, or were they another DELUSION that only took place inside of KEVIN'S MIND (like the case was with TOWER GUY and the other people who waited on top of the roof top for the end of the world)?

Who knows. They could simply be some kind of half dying dreams. Or they could be some kind of real travel. That the black guy from the second season (John’s father?) killed himself to go there too and help him would seem to indicate they happened on some level… but I’m not sure the very writers have an answer there.

And why were we introduced to the CAVE WOMAN?

Was that to show us how she lost her entire CLAN whereas NORA only lost 3 people?

I remember someone posted an excellent analysis of that sequence (sp?) on the old IMDb forums, but I can’t remember it…

Faith vs NO FAITH is an interesting theme, but the show was all over the place and never really seemed to address those issues very well.

John, for example, goes from being someone without any faith to being someone who then pulls the SAME SCAM on people (that he assumed ISAAC was doing and that he disapproved of prior to his then doing the same thing himself).

And MEG goes from searching for someone who's the REAL DEAL to being in DENIAL of having found ISAAC who was the REAL DEAL???

Then she also turns into a bitch because of it and because what her mother planned to tell her before she died?

And John's daughter also becomes one of MEG'S victims for having misplaced faith in MEG and in what she was doing?

I don’t know, I think it addresses them fairly well.

John indeed, had no faith, and then he had faith. He was clearly better in the second “state”, so to speak.

I’d say with Meg it was the other way around. She had faith – in that things somehow made sense, in that finding out what her mom wanted to tell her would give the situation meaning – but what she got from Isaac was the opposite. Things were random and meaningless. And that’s what the GR are kind of about, aren’t they?.

I’m thinking it’s the same with Eve.

And KEVIN'S DAUGHTER JILL also falls for John's son who has FAITH, but then she disappears from the show and we never see her again?

Maybe the actress couldn’t commit to the season.

And we also never found out if HOLY WAYNE was the REAL DEAL or not, but with his getting so many other teen age girls pregnant it seems he was probably not???

But yes the HUG that he gave NORA did seem to have some kind of a PLACEBO effect on her (at least for a little while before she goes back into MELT DOWN MODE again after she wakes up and finds KEVIN MISSING and then handcuffs him to the bed post after that).

The effect Wayne had on her was due to her own faith in that it would work imo. He may well have thought he WAS the real deal.

So yes it was definitely also strangely developed show that changed a lot as the seasons went along.

Have y0u been watching TWIN PEAKS THE RETURN?

If so, how would you compare these 2 shows?

Did you see FARGO where the actress who played NORA also had another role in that show?

If so, how would you compare the 3 shows?

And which one of the 3 shows do you like the best?

Unfortunately I haven’t seen either the new Twin Peaks nor Fargo (love Nora’s actress though, so another reason to give it a look). I actually still haven’t finished the original Twin Peaks. LOVED it for a while but man, does it get bad there in a moment. It supposedly gets better again towards the end, but I haven’t been able to get through the bad episodes yet. Don’t know if I could pick between the original twin peaks and this one though.

Which one do you like better?