No, the time remnant that turns into Savitar hasn't been created yet. Barry creates a bunch of remnants in order to fight Savitar (not knowing who Savitar is) and Savitar kills all remnants except for one.. the one that will eventually become him. He lived and joined the group, but was rejected by everyone, including Barry, because he was thought of as less than human. Broken and in pain, he decided to become a God.

The time remnant that fought Zoom died during the battle.

So the time remnant that Savitar allowed to live was the one that wanted to join Barry and the team, and he was rejected and became Savitar.

This whole thing makes no sense, so savitar can only be created if savitar kills all of Barry's time remnants except for 1? I love the idea of an evil Barry from the future as savitar, but the explanation of how savitar gets created is beyond stupid. It's incomprehensible!

@thomasguide2 said:

This whole thing makes no sense, so savitar can only be created if savitar kills all of Barry's time remnants except for 1? I love the idea of an evil Barry from the future as savitar, but the explanation of how savitar gets created is beyond stupid. It's incomprehensible!

Agreed. And not only that, it robs us of a fantastic storyline where the true future Barry Allen is Savitar. That would have been crazy...so much better. This is just cheap. All season we have been waiting for this, and it was beyond anticlimactic.

@GForce59 said:

So the time remnant that Savitar allowed to live was the one that wanted to join Barry and the team, and he was rejected and became Savitar.

Yup.

So every time Barry time travels he makes a remnant? There must be so many since he time travels on almost a daily basis! The whole thing is ridiculous. The writers knew it was confusing so they has Cisco draw a diagram... which made things no clearer whatsoever. And they had no explanation when Barry said, "What if I kill myself?" "Who knows what will happen? That's the thing about time travel!" They got carried away with that and every season the villain is a speedster/time traveler. Too much. I say Julian dies now in place of Iris and that causes Caitlyn to snap out of her Killer Frost haze and stop Savitar.

@Talon007 said:

So every time Barry time travels he makes a remnant? There must be so many since he time travels on almost a daily basis! The whole thing is ridiculous. The writers knew it was confusing so they has Cisco draw a diagram... which made things no clearer whatsoever. And they had no explanation when Barry said, "What if I kill myself?" "Who knows what will happen? That's the thing about time travel!" They got carried away with that and every season the villain is a speedster/time traveler. Too much. I say Julian dies now in place of Iris and that causes Caitlyn to snap out of her Killer Frost haze and stop Savitar.

I'm wondering if they're trying to confuse us on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers themselves aren't sure what's going on. Perhaps they realized they made it too confusing without meaning to. (I thought Back to the Future was confusing!) When you have to have a character explain the situation to others--in essence explaining it to the audience--you've gone too complex. We should be able to follow along on our own...not need to have it explained to us. This is utterly ridiculous. I'm truly disappointed in how lame this is.

But I would like to know the answer to your question...does Barry really create a new time remnant every time he time travels? I thought he created them "manually." They're automatic as well?

@GForce59 said:

@Talon007 said:

So every time Barry time travels he makes a remnant? There must be so many since he time travels on almost a daily basis! The whole thing is ridiculous. The writers knew it was confusing so they has Cisco draw a diagram... which made things no clearer whatsoever. And they had no explanation when Barry said, "What if I kill myself?" "Who knows what will happen? That's the thing about time travel!" They got carried away with that and every season the villain is a speedster/time traveler. Too much. I say Julian dies now in place of Iris and that causes Caitlyn to snap out of her Killer Frost haze and stop Savitar.

I'm wondering if they're trying to confuse us on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers themselves aren't sure what's going on. Perhaps they realized they made it too confusing without meaning to. (I thought Back to the Future was confusing!) When you have to have a character explain the situation to others--in essence explaining it to the audience--you've gone too complex. We should be able to follow along on our own...not need to have it explained to us. This is utterly ridiculous. I'm truly disappointed in how lame this is.

But I would like to know the answer to your question...does Barry really create a new time remnant every time he time travels? I thought he created them "manually." They're automatic as well?

No, that's not how time remnants work. How would he be able to create a plethora to fight Savitar then?

How do they actually work? No idea.

"(I thought Back to the Future was confusing!)"

Back to Future was not confusing I was able to follow the concept even as a kid. The writers of this show have no idea what they are talking about and are confusing everyone. The idea that Thawne still exists is total and utter nonsense. His ancestor kills himself, therefore Thawne was never born. Therefore Barry's parents are still alive because he never existed and Thawne's future self never came back to kill them. He cannot be a time remnant if he was never born! The flash does not exist yet because the particle accelerator accident didn't happen because Thawne never possessed Wells' body. This show is going to make my head is going to explode!! The entire writing staff needs to be fired and replaced.

@Talon007 said:

So every time Barry time travels he makes a remnant? There must be so many since he time travels on almost a daily basis! The whole thing is ridiculous. The writers knew it was confusing so they has Cisco draw a diagram... which made things no clearer whatsoever. And they had no explanation when Barry said, "What if I kill myself?" "Who knows what will happen? That's the thing about time travel!" They got carried away with that and every season the villain is a speedster/time traveler. Too much. I say Julian dies now in place of Iris and that causes Caitlyn to snap out of her Killer Frost haze and stop Savitar.

Whatttttttt?! You didn't find Cisco's figure eight on a timeline clear?! I agree with the other poster, if you have to have a character explain what's going on, then the s/l is too convoluted. This s/l is not only convoluted, it's incomprehensible. The time remnant who becomes Savitar, was created to help fight Savitar. Ummm, okay!

But you guys don't understand.. rules of time don't apply to people that travel through time!!!!%!$#!#@%#%$$$#

It makes zero sense.

@GForce59 said:

So the time remnant that Savitar allowed to live was the one that wanted to join Barry and the team, and he was rejected and became Savitar.

This show is a mess (I still love it though) and also what annoys me - I understand that for the plot reasons villains have to explain everything to the heroes, and that Savitar did that because he wanted to torture Barry but it literally makes no sense.

So Savitar knows what happened because he "lived" it. So therefore from Barry (because he went into the future) he knows that Barry will defeat him and trap him and that he's working on it right now rather than in the future. It will happen and Savitar should want to avoid that, right, change the future and all that jazz?? So WHY would he tell him how he came to be, should have let him think it's really future him, that would torture Barry more, and he wanted to torture Barry. Barry would never learn how to stop him and Savitar would end up existing because of that endless loop thingy. Now, (does not matter if Iris lives or dies) Barry knows either not to create future time remnants, or knows not to reject the survivor. Everyone would be nice to him and he wouldn't have reasons to go crazy and evil and loop would be broken.

There is no way Savitar can win now, he sealed his own fate and that is stupid because he is supposed to be always thinking about all possible outcomes.

I wish writers thought more about what they are writing.

Bootstrap paradox. That's all they had to say and it frustrated me that they didn't say it. Just remember: "Frye is his own graddaddy".

It's a clusterfork, and it really comes down to the writers not really thinking their plots through, or maintaining any kind of consistency in their internal logic.

The initial concept for "time remnants" as introduced in "Return of the Reverse Flash" last season, wasn't a bad premise; and made some degree of sense. The version of Eobard Thawne who appeared in the present was at one of the earliest points in his personal timeline; and critical for existence of the rest of the timeline which he was responsible for He was a rote entity in time, who genuinely comes from nowhere as he emerges from a temporal vortex from a future that no longer exists; and when he leaves, he likewise goes nowhere. If you could look at a representation of his personal timeline, it would be segmented. He represented fragmented "remnants" of an erased timeline, with just enough of his existence preserved, peppered throughout the new timeline to perpetuate its stability.

Whatever the "time remnant" concept has mutated into since Zoom's identity was revealed last season, and all of the other instances since, bears no resemblance to the original premise; and makes no sense. What the characters seem to take for granted is that the iteration of Savitar they're fighting now, has already been imprisoned and escaped; yet they're treating it like this is the first time he gets imprisoned - they're going after the wrong Savitar. They're overlooking the fact that there's an entirely separate, younger version of Savitar, who doesn't even exist yet, who will be the one locked in the Speed Force and gets out to kill Iris and become the version of Savitar they're fighting now. And that's why they can't win, because he will always know what they going to do - up to the point that they lock away the original Savitar...

That's their only hope to succeed; if they intentionally create Savitar and quickly lock him away, because at that point of divergence is where the extent of his future knowledge ends and he can't know what's in store for the future iteration of himself that escapes, and Team Flash can finally hope to get the upper hand.

This whole savitar thing was stupid. They had savitar trapped and decided to put him into the speed force. Huh? Why not have Barry just toss it into space? Or just have Cisco send him to another dimension. Why haven't the time wraiths been chasing ( remember those) savitar? Iris is dead now, but won't stay dead for long. Barry will reverse this with yet another trip back in time. This entire 3rd season was flashpoint and it'll get wiped out. Iris will be alive and the only one that will even know anything about savitar will be Barry.