I only watch GH so I can’t comment on the others. The biggest problem with GH the past year has been inconsistent writing, abrupt changes in the personalities and behavior of many characters, and long SL’s that don’t resolve or resolve in an unsatisfactory manner. It’s been a hot mess of musical chairs among the writing staff.

For example, the entire Pikeman SL was a hot mess that dragged on for a year and then just fizzled out. In the process they wrote off Valentin, who was a fan favorite, and the only character who made Anna tolerable. Also, Charlotte was an interesting future villain that was abruptly written out.

What happened to Selina Wu- the female mobster who was a potential foil to Sonny?

Some of the writing has been implausibly ridiculous, like Kristina tripping and crashing out a hotel window.

We’ve had some of the worst pairings, ever. Drewfus and Willow; Sam and Dante; Sonny and Natalia, and now possibly Anna and Jason?

Some of the writing has been simply aggravating. Viewers are sick of the cat fighting between Molly and Kristina. It’s unpleasant and over-the-top. End the fighting over the dead baby SL already wtf.

I could go on and on.

Re: Ryan on AMC, I had to go back to his history, cause I don't think the INSTANT he was on the show it became bad. If I had to pinpoint it, I'd say it was when he was shot in the head and survived but had amnesia (he was missing exactly four years of his life). THAT'S when he kicked into overdrive and became the unbearable holier than thou Ryan.

OLTL went downhill when they let Todd be 'funny' w Howarth. AMC started spikingafter they killed off Will Courtlandt. The Janet stuff went too over the top.

GH, in retrospect, sowed the seeds of its amoral end w Luke raised as hero rapist. That set the stage, It took another 20+ years for the rot to set in with the Fucked Up Foursome, but Luke lit the fuse.

All good answers. And to clarify I didn’t mean each show sucked at the arrival of each character. Rather, when the characters became the epicenter and linked to every damn story.

For example Victor was a great villain. Sonny was a bad guy. Its when they decide to make them heroes they ruin the character and often the show.

@Briabba2 said:

All good answers. And to clarify I didn’t mean each show sucked at the arrival of each character. Rather, when the characters became the epicenter and linked to every damn story.

For example Victor was a great villain. Sonny was a bad guy. Its when they decide to make them heroes they ruin the character and often the show.

I don’t think individual characters spell the demise of a show. It’s bigger issues- like bad, inconsistent writing, abrupt character changes, long SL’s that don’t go anywhere or are dropped. Sonny is the least of the current problems right now. He’s been a main character for 30 years now, and while tiresome, he’s not the reason GH has gotten so bad the last year.

I've been enjoying, and I do mean really enjoying, the latest episodes of Emmerdale on BritBox. I was trying to figure out why it is clicking so well for me. And I realized it is because the plots, while important, are secondary to the characters. Each episode seems to have a good sit-down between two or three characters discussing something valuable. It could be resident witch Kim Tate (Claire King) and her housekeeper Lydia Dingle (Karen Blick). Or Will Taylor (Dean Andrews) and Jimmy King (Nick Miles) having a "man club" chat at the local cafe, with Dr. Liam Cavanagh (Jonny McPherson) chiming in.

In these conversations we learn about the characters' backgrounds and individual histories more. Some of these scenes can involve enemies or relatives feuding, who are learning more about each other in these conversations.

For me, sometimes all I want or need is two or three characters sitting down and having coffee and discussing something valuable. That's how soaps under Irna Phillips, Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon used to be...I know that is kind of old-fashioned, but with Emmerdale, it works...because after the episode ends, you keep thinking about the relationships of these characters. And you don't need people pointing guns or falling through windows to do it.

So to answer the question in the first post of this thread, anytime a soap gets away from rich characterization and meaningful interactions, that's when they stop being essential and start going downhill.

Awesome answer. Emmerdale has been excellent for a long time. It’s what Agnes Nixon and Marland shows (respectively) once were. Coronation Street has streaks of similar quality interspersed with story lulls. But their lulls take advantage of the time by deepening characters and their relationships within their community rather than leaping wildly from one story to another for no apparent reason.

rich characterization and meaningful interactions

These are rarities on soaps. It's essential to melodrama that the characters are facile and rarely grow, and that the action is over the top.

I think of the two best soaps I ever saw- GH in the 80s and Prisoner: cell Block H from Australia in the 80s. Both had big over the top characters and tales, and the deeper, more connecting moments were rarer, but this made them all the more special when they occurred.

If that becomes too much the soap becomes mawkish, dull, preachy, and not a soap!

@Briabba2 said:

Awesome answer. Emmerdale has been excellent for a long time. It’s what Agnes Nixon and Marland shows (respectively) once were. Coronation Street has streaks of similar quality interspersed with story lulls. But their lulls take advantage of the time by deepening characters and their relationships within their community rather than leaping wildly from one story to another for no apparent reason.

This week we have news of Zak Dingle's death, one of Emmerdale's most beloved patriarchs...and I think the funeral and pub scenes on Thursday's double episode will be great. All the interviews the cast have given is that it will be a proper tribute to Steve Halliwell who played Zak for almost 30 years. Some fans joke that when episodes become too Dingle-centric, the show is Dingledale! But they're an iconic family, and without them, the show would be nothing. Anyway, I think there will be some very heartfelt, character-driven performances this week.

It took me a while to acclimate to the Dingle cult but now I’m a fan. Kim’s son really needs to return….

@Briabba2 said:

It took me a while to acclimate to the Dingle cult but now I’m a fan. Kim’s son really needs to return….

I have a feeling they are saving Jamie's return for Kim's exit storyline. I read that Claire King was planning to retire in a year or so...I wouldn't be surprised if Jamie comes back to get revenge on his mother, and that is what leads to Kim's ultimate downfall. Her son was always her Achilles Heel. But I do like the current storylines where she is involved with Will, Dawn and Gabby.