Agreed that having Spock and Chapel "in love" is just more BS claptrap retcon nonsense. As was Spock and Uhura supposedly having had a romantic and sexual relationship according to Jar Jar Abrams.

But what could they say about Spock and T'Pring beyond that they were "promised" since they apparently never met again after that, at least not as adults, until "Amok Time?"

by knix:

Agreed that having Spock and Chapel "in love" is just more BS claptrap retcon nonsense. As was Spock and Uhura supposedly having had a romantic and sexual relationship according to Jar Jar Abrams.

But what could they say about Spock and T'Pring beyond that they were "promised" since they apparently never met again after that, at least not as adults, until "Amok Time?

I knew you would bring up that Spock said in Amok Time that they had not seen each other since they were 7 years old.

I agree.

I know also, that the writers didn’t want to give up the opportunity to have Spock involved romantically so this is what I would have done not to crap on canon.

No Nurse Chapel

Instead have the platinum actress play a brand new character like Hemmer ( even as Dr. Benga's assistant but not as Chapel ).

I read that Hemmer was a well-written character and won over most of the public and his death was felt by the fans.

There is definitely lots of chemistry between Peck and Bush so that would have given their love story arc a great start.

So Spock explores his human emotions with the platinum lass and then for some reason, they have issues that cause Spock to renounce his human heritage and convince him logic is the better path.

No T’Pring … after all writers can expand her character when Spock is under Kirk’s command. (At the most to add some inner conflict, Spock could have some flashback scenes showing them as kids during their ceremony .. just to let the public know Spock does think of T’Pring)

Canon remains intact, full stop.

The trouble with these writers is they are impatient.. Kirk too should have been left out for now in my opinion. And while I'm on the subject this actor was really a bad choice..he has a deadpan face, no charisma, no twinkle in his eyes...I have seen only clips but just going by a first impression, I'm not impressed.

Don't they make it so that Kirk is commanding a different ship already? That doesn't really fit either. But maybe that was just temporary somehow, since it appears that even SNW doesn't claim that Kirk had his own ship before the Enterprise.

Claiming that Spock had any kind of romantic/sexual relationships prior to TOS, even with Nurse Chapel, is just falling for the same trick that has Spock supposedly with Uhura before, according to Jar Jar Trek. "Amok Time" seems to be pretty clear that Spock had avoided Pon Farr up to then, and there was no indication that he "dallied" otherwise.

Also, from "The Menagerie, Part 1" it seems pretty clear that Kirk hadn't met Pike before taking over command of the Enterprise from him. And THAT was when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain.

@sunshine62 said:

In TOS I always thought that Nurse Chapel was in love with Spock but that Spock did not have feelings for her. Full stop.

I saw a few clips that wonder2wonder kindly provided when season one of Strange New Worlds was on and today I found these two videos.

Are we supposed to believe that Spock actually fell in love with Nurse Chapel before he served on the Enterprise under Kirk.

I find very fetching the actress that plays nurse chapel. I love her platinum hair and dark eyebrows ... they look sweet together but that Spock and Chapel actually fell in love with each other doesn't make sense comparing them with the Spock/Chapel version in TOS.

Why couldn't the writers just follow the Spock/T'Pring relationship ..at least they were promised in TOS. (Amok Time)

Viewers love watching soap drama in any genre. For new - and many old - Star Trek fans the Vulcans look like aliens, but are emotionally just like humans. They want to see all the relationship drama in this love triangle of T'Pring, Spock and Christine. In season one it is noted that Spock and T'Pring have been in touch (perhaps also dating ?) since they were children. In episode 1, T'Pring finally asks Spock the big question. The dialogue is similar to what you can expect from other soap drama, and so you get somthing like "As the Star Trek Universe Turns", "Star Trek: The Bold and the Beautiful". Reminds me of the Star Trek fiction, that I used to write in the twentieth century.

T'Pring: "Spock, will you marry me?"

Spock: "I was beginning to think you would never ask... which I now believe was the idea."

They seal their commitment with a kiss, and just when they are about to make sweet love in a sea of glowing candles, they are interrupted by Pike on the communicator.

Pike: "Spock. Are you naked?"

Spock: "No captain."

T'Pring (putting on a robe over her satin night gown): "No, Chris, he is not. He was about to be. It's a special night."

So the drama begins. Spock's work comes first, before anything else, including T'Pring. There are long distance relationship problems with Spock travelling all over the universe on the USS Enterprise, where he'll meet his true love, Christine Chapel.

In S1E05 Spock kisses Christine for the first time in front of T'Pring. Although it was part of a plan to deceive the space pirate Angel, you could clearly see that there was more to it and T'Pring became jealous. In this episode Stonn also appears. He works at the same Ankeshtan K'til Vulcan criminal rehabilitation center as T'Pring, where she is a rehabilitation specialist.

Spock and Christine on the USS Enterprise, and T'Pring and Stonn at the rehabilitation center. What a setup for a soap drama.

Who will cheat first?

There is even more in that episode. Sybok, Spock's half-brother, is a prisoner at the center and married to Angel.

Does T'Pring know?

In the second season there is a 'meet the parents' episode. Spock has a ritual dinner with T'Pring's parents, but he makes a mess out of it. T'Pring's dominant mother T'Pril hates Spock, because he is half-human and a nitwit. She believes that her daughter is marrying beneath her, but the marriage is necessary to join the two houses together. T'Pring is mad at Spock for all what happened and Christine comforts him.

Will there be a love child?

Sidenote:

Christine Chapel is not only a nurse, but she is also a genius scientist, who can find cures for many diseases (just like doctor McCoy).

@Knixon said:

Don't they make it so that Kirk is commanding a different ship already? That doesn't really fit either. But maybe that was just temporary somehow, since it appears that even SNW doesn't claim that Kirk had his own ship before the Enterprise.

That was in season one's finale episode "A Quality of Mercy" with an alternate future timeline, where Pike - and not Kirk - is still captain of the USS Enterprise and confronts the Romulans - remember (S)TOS "Balance of Terror". In that timeline Kirk is then captain of the USS Farragut.

In season two there is another alternate timeline episode with Kirk. Lieutenant La'an Noonien-Singh - descendent of the infamous Khan - finds a dying humanoid with a strange device on the ship and when she goes to the bridge, she is surprised to see Kirk as the captain of the USS Enterprise. She doesn't exist in this timeline. When the device is accidentally activated she and Kirk are transported to 21st century Earth. The only way to repair the timeline is to prevent the killing of the young child Khan by the Romulans. She succeeds and returns to her own timeline. At the end of the episode she opens a communication to the USS Farragut, where Kirk is a lieutenant and, of course, he doesn't know her, as the timeline has been fixed. La'an has feelings for Kirk, but it is unreciprocated, because he is in a relationship with Carol Marcus and they have a son, David, together.

Will La'an and James T. Kirk become lovers?

The more I learn, the happier I get that I don't waste a second actually watching any of that.

by knix:

Claiming that Spock had any kind of romantic/sexual relationship prior to TOS, even with Nurse Chapel, is just falling for the same trick that has Spock supposedly with Uhura before, according to Jar Jar Trek. "Amok Time" seems to be pretty clear that Spock had avoided Pon Farr up to then, and there was no indication that he "dallied" otherwise.

What has Pon Farr got to do with following one’s heart?

During Pon Farr, Vulcans have no choice but to mate or die. Vulcans are simply subjected to it. It has nothing to do with romantic emotions.

At age seven Spock and T’Pring were promised in a ceremony and their minds linked at some level, she knew she had to go to Spock because he was starting to experience the effects of Pon Farr.

To have to mate or otherwise die with practically a stranger must be a very humiliating experience to go through.

Spock thought that being half Human would have saved him from such humiliation .....to be stripped of his logic and overpowered by this urge to mate.

In Amok Spock didn't avoid PonFarr up to then like you wrote......it was his first Pon Farr.. that' s why he hoped to avoid it being half Human.

That doesn’t mean Spock could not fall in love. In "This Side of Paradise" he made love to Leila, a botanist he had met on Earth six years prior. (So before he even served Kirk on the Enterprise) .

He had deep feelings for her .. but at the time he chose not to act on those feelings.

Why?

Spock, when he was growing up on Vulcan, was considered less than a Vulcan so to prove to everyone he could be even more Vulcan than a Vulcan he denied himself the possibility even to love.

(His father Sarek ...stoic as he was, married a human, because he fell in love with her)

So nothing was stopping Spock from loving someone but himself.

The spores removed those barriers Spock had erected to keep his emotions in check and like Spock confessed to Leila

“ I can love you NOW”

So I don’t see Spock being romantic involved during his service on Enterprise under Pike as going against canon as long it’s not with eg. Uhura or Nurse Chapel ..

Spock never showed interest in these two characters in TOS.

Uhura and Nurse should not even be on the Enterprise under Pike. Period.

Well there is that. But it seems that Pon Farr especially didn't just remove the logic barriers, it seemed to actually CREATE.... lust, or whatever. I would argue that it had to do more than just remove inhibitions, because that wouldn't be enough when involving life or death.

And supposedly Vulcans have Pon Farr every 7 years OF THEIR ADULT LIFE. Are you claiming that Spock wasn't an adult until "Amok Time?" Also, remember that "child" Spock had Pon Farr with Saavik on the Genesis Planet.

The spores also seemed to create feelings as much as releasing inhibitions. It's quite possible, within the explanation of the spores, that Spock didn't have deep feelings for Leila until the spores got to him. AFTER the spores he may have felt some residual feelings that the spores created, which explains how Spock was a bit different toward her at the end of the episode.

to knix,

Our discussion was about Spock having a love interest before arriving on the Enterprise under Kirk’s command. According to you, it screwed up canon.

I said it was possible and that he could have had one without screwing up canon as long it was with a character that was not later part of the crew in TOS

I even backed my opinion with facts .

So could you please go back and read my last post and then answer : yes or no ?

If you reply NO then explain why.

Then I will try to reply to your last post.

I would say no based on the overall likelihoods etc. Spock having a love-interest before TOS/Kirk is as likely as Spock being dyslexic and the other BS claptrap retcon nonsense that gets added to the shows for no good reason. Was there a cue-card in any of the TOS episodes specifying "Please note that Spock is NOT dyslexic, and anyone who comes along 60 years later saying otherwise is lying?" No, but it's still BS claptrap retcon nonsense. On the order of claiming Sulu was homosexual just because George Takei is.

by knix:

I would say no based on the overall likelihoods etc. Spock having a love interest before TOS/Kirk is as likely....

But according to canonSpock did fall in love with Leila six years before....Spock just chose not to act on those feelings.

They then re-met on Omicrom Ceti 111 under Kirk's command.

Leila knew that Spock had feelings for her that's why she exposed him to the spores. The spores didn't make Spock fall in love with Leila.

The spores stripped Spock of all those mental barriers he had put up so as not to act on his true feelings for Leila.

When Kirk freed Spock from the spores' control, he was not angry or sorry for what Leila had done …he confessed to Kirk that for the first time in his life, he was happy.

by knix:

And supposedly Vulcans have Pon Farr every 7 years OF THEIR ADULT LIFE. Are you claiming that Spock wasn't an adult until "Amok Time?" Also, remember that "child" Spock had Pon Farr with Saavik on the Genesis Planet.

As far as I know Vulcans can live to be 200 even some 220.

Spock was born in 2230 and Amok Time occurred in 2267.

So Spock was 37 years old. I don’t see it’s so strange he reached full maturity at 37 (seeing he could live to 200)

Spock clearly had his first Pon Farr in Amok Time seeing HE told Kirk he hoped his human part would spare him from experiencing Pon Farr Had Spock been through Pon Parr he would have known what was going to happen.

NB. You don’t have to be an adult to fall in love or have sex .

Human teens have sex and fall in love but they are not yet adults.

Idem for Vulcans, they can have sex, fall in love at any age................it's only during PON FARR that they have no choice and must mate.

Sarek and Amanda didn't just do it every seven years.

As for the reborn Spock ..what happened to him was not natural, the rapid growth and aging process. So you can’t go by what happened to him.

by wonder2wonder:

I enjoyed your post wonder2wonder. 🙂

Viewers love watching soap dramas in any genre. For new - and many old - Star Trek fans the Vulcans look like aliens, but are emotionally just like humans. They want to see all the relationship drama in this love triangle of T'Pring, Spock and Christine.

I think the writers should have been more focused on telling stories of exploration and meeting new aliens, after all the series is called NEW STRANGE WORLDS and that was the core of TOS too.

That said...

I think Spock could have been romantically involved but why screw up canon by choosing Chapel? And then T'Pring

Chapel never served under Pike and I have my doubts that Spock and T'Pring kept in touch over the years. All the writers had to do was create a new character for Spock's love interest. The chemistry between Peck and Bush is oozing....she could have played Spock's love interest just not as Nurse Chapel.

Characters T'Pring and Nurse Chapel should have popped up only when Kirk became captain of the Enterprise to keep canon.

@sunshine62 said:

by wonder2wonder:

I enjoyed your post wonder2wonder. 🙂

Viewers love watching soap dramas in any genre. For new - and many old - Star Trek fans the Vulcans look like aliens, but are emotionally just like humans. They want to see all the relationship drama in this love triangle of T'Pring, Spock and Christine.

I think the writers should have been more focused on telling stories of exploration and meeting new aliens, after all the series is called NEW STRANGE WORLDS and that was the core of TOS too.

I agree, but this is NuTrek with a different philosophy.

That said...

I think Spock could have been romantically involved but why screw up canon by choosing Chapel? And then T'Pring

Chapel never served under Pike and I have my doubts that Spock and T'Pring kept in touch over the years. All the writers had to do was create a new character for Spock's love interest. The chemistry between Peck and Bush is oozing....she could have played Spock's love interest just not as Nurse Chapel.

It doesn't matter who is cast as Christine, the romance between Spock and Christine would have always happened in (S)SNW. Spock would have then had three women: T'Pring, Christine and the second love interest who Jess Bush would play in (S)SNW.

Anyway the soap drama continues:

. Spock and Christine are in a relationship (yes they are sleeping together) and have decided not to tell anyone yet.

. Christine breaks up with Spock

What will happen in season three? How will the breakup affect the relationship between Spock and Christine? Does that explain why in (S)TOS they are not together? What will T'Pring do when she finds out and has she already started sleeping with Stonn?

Other news:

. James T. Kirk and Spock meet for the first time, and Uhura is there too.

. Pike meets Scotty

Great makeup job for the actor Martin Quinn who plays Scotty.

It is not known yet who will play Sulu and Chekov.

The Sulu and Chekov stuff is especially dumb, if they're supposed to be playing characters 12 years or more before TOS. Sulu would be 17 or 18, and Chekov would be about 10!

It's even worse than Bonanza where Dan Blocker who played Hoss was just 2 or 3 years younger than Lorne Greene who played Hoss's father.

@Knixon said:

The Sulu and Chekov stuff is especially dumb, if they're supposed to be playing characters 12 years or more before TOS. Sulu would be 17 or 18, and Chekov would be about 10!

(S)SNW season two takes place in 2259. Sulu (born 2237) would be 22 years old. Chekov (born 2245) is 14 years old. I don't know if they will change these birth years.

Scotty (born 2222) is 37 years old, but the actor, Martin Quinn, who plays him is younger, 29 years old.